MSDS again

[sandra]

Hi again,
Second question for the day. Do we need to have an MSDS for everday products such as dishwashing detergent, disinfectant etc? Also, after going through Chemwatch, is it necessary to have an MSDS for all solutions of a chemical or just for the solid chemical?

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, you are expected to hold MSDS close to hand for everyday items such as detergents, flysprays etc, and also various molarity strengths of solutions. If they come under the same umbrella (i.e. the toxicity etc doesn't change between strengths)and are stored together then a single MSDS will cover those strengths. Concs obviously will differ from .1M solution for example.

[Whspa]

I think the short answer to that is yes. If it is rated as hazardous then it needs an MSDS. As for various solutions of a chemical, you will find that some chemicals (eg sodium hydroxide) are more hazardous in solution than as a solid, so they will need their own MSDS.

Carol

[Slartibartfast]

What does rated as hazardous mean? Sorry about the longer answer than "yes" but it's not that straightforward. It doesn't have to be a risk for a MSDS needing to be present. If you read MSDS there is other information there also about disposal, spills, storage, flammability, toxicity etc etc etc It's all about the "having" it on your premises and the quick referral to if need be if there are questions regarding that product. If in doubt whatsoever, print one off. Are you aware also that MSDS quick referral also means the ability to access it quicky i.e. on chemwatch? Chemwatch is designed for quick access - it does not by definition mean that a printed copy must be beside that product on the shelf. Worthwhile as there is some talk of it lately. I Prefer printed ones I must admit but the information is to hand in the blink of an eye 24 hours a day 7 days per week. I've been doing my homework and Chemwatch is available in all states. Carol, did you have an MSDS available for Chlorquin tablets?

[Whspa]

Yes, I did, and it rates them as non-hazardous and non-dangerous. So I really think that using them as we do should not present a problem - but I still think I'll use an alternative in future.
I have searched the MSDS for every chemical in our science faculty (including dilutions) on Chemwatch and if the MSDS rates it as hazardous, then I print it out in full.
I, too, prefer a hard copy of the MSDS's, because its not uncommon here for the server to be down, making Chemwatch inaccessible. I have a computer which is dedicated to Chemwatch, but that's not much good when you can't get on the net.

Carol

[Slartibartfast]

True, can't agree with you more on that. Availability. Never panic with regards "what If I'm caught short" with regards to MSDS and chemical safety documents. Do the best with what you've got, use your experience and common sense to provide as safe a place of work and study you possibly can,voice your concerns to those who can do something about them and if your questions are going unanswered or dismissed as fictional - contact your states government work safety office. They're there to educate and help if they can and remember the principal is not the be all and end all of safety in your school - that's why they cannot be chair person of the OH&S committee! Great eh!

[Robb]

Hi All,

I have been watching this topic area very carefully and although there has been some excellent questions and answers to all that have been posted, there still lays some gaps in some aspects of whether something needs an MSDS or not and what else is needed apart from that.

Just to add to the confusing issue of MSDS's and Hazardous and Non Hazardous and diluted solutions, there is also the need to have at hand Site Specific Risk Assessments for ALL Hazardous Chemicals there may be in Situ. The Risk Assessments include information based on factors that will influence where, when and whom will use and has access to certain Hazardous Chemicals and what control measures are needed to house, allow for safe use, and transport the substance of interest.

Some of these tentative areas can be solved by accessing the information on relevant MSDS's but not all information for Risk Assessments are displayed.

Along with the MSDS's for ALL SUBSTANCES (and I use the term substances loosely as this has been used as a general term), including Fly sprays and cleaners and detergents. The requirements for Risk Assessments only have to be completed on ALL HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES..

Becareful also, as certain substances do become less toxic when they become diluted, That's why they jump down to categories within the DET code (eg Acids, Concentrated-to-Dilute). Organics (Water Miscible) are others that will become less toxic, Others include Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Sulfate, Calciuym Carbonate, Arsenic Trioxide (Arsenic, yes you read correctly), Thorium Nitrate, just to name a few.

So the general rule is that most will stay the same but others will certainly jump down to lower categories within the same Dangerous Goods Class...

I hope this has not created more confusion on this topic but the purpose is to clarify certain aspects of MSDS and Risk Assessments.

And make sure all are up-to-date....or within the 3-5 year tolerance period..


Cheers,


Robb.....

[rae]

Hi All,

Well I'm now totally confused.
Where are there a CLEAR set of guidelines simply written and available to everyone that states what where when and how??
Does the DET CSIS folder have all the required information that we should follow?
Is it different for all States?

This topic is one HUGE can of worms!!

Lorrae

[Slartibartfast]

Work to your CSIS folder.

[dolphinscales]

http://hsis.ascc.gov.au/Default.aspx

This is the link to the Aust Govt. site regarding haz substances. thier blurb...

"The HSIS is an internet resource that allows you to find information on substances that have been classified in accordance with the Approved Criteria for Classifying Hazardous Substances [NOHSC:1008(2004] 3rd Edition and/or have National Exposure Standards declared under the NOHSC Adopted National Exposure Standards for Atmospheric Contaminants in the Occupational Environment [NOHSC:1003(1995)] or subsequent updates. In addition to providing powerful search features, HSIS also provides direct access to a consolidated list of all the classified substances contained in the HSIS database."


It is heavy going if you are not sure of the set out and what it all means but it is a resource I do use regularly now If I get stuck looking for cut of points for haz levels. I have been lucky in my past of having peole who understood the workngs and have helped me understand a lot of it - though i am hopeless at passing on that info i am afraid.

It is a deep and confusing subject MSDS's, hazardous and dangerous labels and so forth but i guess we have to added "joy" of having this community to help out... it is confusing for most of us in some form.

[Dee]

Do you think that if you have a hard copy of MSDS of all chemicals in school including the detergents etc and a mini MSDS of the different molarities that you store in the labs or in the chem store and access to chemwatch by all relevant staff this would cover any workcover audit that may happen?

I have just reprinted our out of date MSDS's and a number that were missing, but I am wary of using up to much ink and paper due to the budget getting a little lean.

This topic seems to get more complex everytime something is written about it and I want to make sure that I am doing the right thing by the CSIS package, but find time is also an issue.

Robert - I thought the Department had us covered for site specific risk assessments through appendix D and we only really needed a site specific risk assessment if the chemical was to be used in a way not listed in the package. We have risk assessments on every prac that we do covering the whole prac, and listed in it are warnings about chemical use which is basically the blurb from appendix D, as well as other safety issues not dealing with the chemicals - hair tied back, covered shoes, take care with glassware, hot equipment, electricity etc.

Any input would be gratefully appreciated
Dee

[Lyn]

Can anyone tell me if Chemwatch is a user pay service. I have been trying to access this site for MSDS sheets and am having no joy.

Thanks, Lyn.

[Labbie]

Hi Lynn, Please try:

http://chemwatchdb.det.nsw.edu.au

This may help you

Regards

[smiley]

Lynn,

Short answer is yes, Chemwatch is a user pays system. Our CathEd Services here pays licence fees, and we all have passwords etc.

Cheers, K

[Lyn]

Thanks ladies,

Will have to initiate some action on getting access to the Chemwatch site. Until then it's a matter of trawling the internet trying to find appropriate MSDS sheets for my chemicals. Right now they all need replacing.

Pommy: The website you mentioned keeps coming up as "network - server failure". I have tried accessing the NSW education site before but without much success.

Lyn.

[Slartibartfast]

Ladies? There are fellas on this forum! "google" chemwatch under search Australia and the 1st couple of sites will give state contacts for what your looking for but if your having network problems then thats another problem entirely. Thanks "blokes"!

[Labbie]

Hi Lynn, I am so sorry that chemwatch site, did not work for you.

Regards

[Slartibartfast]

Nothing wrong with the site(s)- their department supplied internet link is the problem - otherwise they could access any one of the other chemwatch sites. There isn't just one!!!!!!!!!!!