FUME CUPBOARDS

[coxy]

Briefly: During last Christmas holidays "someone" came here, assessed our fume cupboards (one in each of three classrooms/labs) and placed stickers on them "Condemned". "Nobody" knew anything about this, until about 3 weeks into Term 1, I went to use fume cupboard and noticed sticker. Spoke to my HT, Deputy and Principal, plus GA - nobody knew anything about testing, who had been - absolutely nothing! Rang local district office. Was told "I'll get back to you as soon as I find out what is going on". Four days later I was told "It's OK, tear the stickers off and continue to use the fume cupboards, a mistake was made in the testing and they are all ok". So, I did as I was told. However, in July this year, a guy from Assets Management Newcastle, came to take photos of rotting cupboards, fume cupboards and various other broken down equipment. He told me that "as of last Friday, these 3 fume cupboards at this school are all condemned! Do not use them at all!"

Well, I rang the District Office (SEA) again, explained the situation and spoke to the same pen-pusher as before. He said not to worry, the testing was incorrect and again, they are OK. So I asked him if he would let his wife, daughter, mother use them; he said "that is not a fair comment" and hung up on me! Since then, I have absolutely refused to use any of the fume cupboards. Studying at Tafe part time this year, my last topic was OH&S - therefore I sent a memo to our OH&S committee/Principal. (Three times). Finally, after numerous emails to North Coast OH&S DET, etc I have just had the fume cupboards re-tested, and they ALL FAILED! Assets Management representative talked about patch-up repairs, clearing vents, etc. I spoke to the technicians and they all agreed that there was NO WAY they would let any family member use the cupboards. I feel vindicated, but what happens now is anyone's guess. My HT and other Science teachers are behind me on this issue. Two of the fume cupboards are for "dry chemicals" only and the other for "wet chemicals" - not one of them passed. The testing took just on two and a half hours last week. I have stated I want a statement in writing from the Dept of Education, that the fume cupboards are "perfectly safe for 'wet chemical' use, and will not be using them until I get that.
Has anyone else had problems along this line?
Sue

[cactus155]

Have you tried contacting Workcover? they may be able to help.
Also are you a member of a Union? because you could contact them as well.

Our fume cupboards seem to be tested every 6 months or so, but it must just be the extraction system, as 1 of the cupboards in the classroom has a broken screen and the guy doesn't seem too concerned about that.

[Labbie]

Yes, In Nov 05 our fume cupboards were condemned. I am to get 2 new fume cupboards. I managed to take a large bottle of acid to a local school. And left it their, and would return to use the fume cupboards to make up stock required. I have now run out of acid, most of the bottles are empty. God only knows what Chemistry for yr 11 & Yr 12 are going to do for next year. As of term 1 this year, I have had three different people as Principal. The chap we have now is good. But as to when my fume cupboards well arrive is any one guess. Two years is a long long time. I use to make up little amounts, say about 500mls to keep us going. But I do not think any one cares at all. So I have decided to even stop making up 500mls. I am lucky in a way the Principal (Says he is right behind me) and so far has backed me up each time. Even with the District chap. I went through OH&S, but it seems no one has the power to get me a fume cupboard. I would like just one for christmas. If Santa is out their, Please

[Voice]

I don't know what the situation is in NSW, but in Victoria we would get a "PIN" notice attached to the affected equipment. "Provisional Improvement Notice" requires management to make improvements within a small specified time. Two weeks I think? If nothing is done in that time, management can be charged under some Safety Act and fined thousands of dollars. And the equipment still has to be fixed. If you have Worksafe in NSW I would contact them. They should then send out an inspector. Then watch the fun!!!! We have had a local Primary school prosecuted for not having enough chairs (for staff) in the Staffroom. Private industry is expecting State run organisations to be as answerable to the laws as they are. PLUS: You should never transport such chemicals in your car. It is unsafe for you and playing into their hands.
Maree

[Slartibartfast]

Contact the Public Service Association and Paul Covey from Workcover NSW IMMEDIATELY and tell them what you have told us. You will get answers straight away if you are to use the said item or not. Don't waste your time dealing with district office. They are the ones that will put the blame firmly on your shoulders if something goes wrong with the use of those fume cuboards. This whole episode says a lot about why privatisation of jobs that used to be employed within our department should never have taken place. They will continue to blame each other till they are blue in the face. Let them hear it from the PSA and Workcover. That will put an end to the faffing about.

[fibreweb]

I also have a major problem with my fume hood but of an entirely different nature.(Nature being the operative word!)

My flue is infested with hide beetles!! The beetles have laid there eggs presumably in the carcasses of birds that have been trapped in the flue. These have now metamorphosed into pupae and they are dropping into my fume cupboard at a rate of over 200 a day.!!!!

I am becoming very concerned about the holidays, 200 pupae a day by 37 odd days adds up to a lot of creepy crawly things in my preproom when I return. At the moment I have tote trays full of water in the fume cupboard which catches and drowns most of them.

Our GA is on sick leave and we have 3 casuals none of which know what to do, or are willing to make the decision that professional help may be required. Probably worried about costs. Meanwhile I'm finding these creepy crawlys all over the preproom.

Hopefully the Monday man will do something.

I hope everybody has a wonderful Christmas and great, restful holidays.

Wendy

[Slartibartfast]

Close the place off and let off a Mortine roach bomb in the fume cupboard preferably if it's running. They'll still drop but they'll be dead.

[fibreweb]

Would that kill all the lavae that are still in the carcasses which I figures are about 10 metres away up the flue?
The dead birds would still have to be dealt with to prevent re-infestation I suppose.

Wendy

[Robb]

Hi All,

I will let you in on a little secret, I don't know if I even told Richard, (Slartibartfast), but in my third year at University I had a Personal Research Assignment involving testing the Soil samples near the Pasminco Metal Sulfide works at Boolaroo NSW Hunter Region (For those whom are sketchy of the area) They munufactured Lead, Zinc, Mercury and Sulfuric Acid.

The areas I had taken sample from I cannot convey to you due to any possible litigation that may bestow myself...

And what I was doing was dissolving the soil samples in HF or Hydroflouric Acid (dissolves glass) and absorbes through human skin and starts to dissolve the bone.. and dissolving it in Perchloric Acid also. Problem.... Perchloric Acid is explosive with Organic Material above 120 Degrees C. I was Boiling the stuff!!!

The fume cupboard at Uni was old and had paint flaking off, and the Wooden sides were being exposed, (ORGANIC) well... BOOM!!! the fume cupboard blew up in an almighty explosion that send shards of perspex flying in all directions and Acid.... HF everywhere. I was fine but at the time of the explosion I had turned and gathered the next samples for the heating plate. Nobody could have foreseen that but testing of fumecupboards were certainly around as the Australian Standards have a published version out. After that I made sure I had a personal Copy.

The only thing I got out of all that was shaking legs, a look over by the ambulance and a satisfying thought that I had all of Newcastle HAZMAT there at the Uni Chemistry Building...

Hmm. Fume Cupboards..

Cheers,

Robb.....

P.S. Shaking just writing about it... (oh I have another one to tell if you are interested!!).

[coxy]

Thanks for all the advice, comments and stories. I am wondering about the other stories you have to tell Robb - I don't know if I would be glad or sorry to work with you in a Lab!! I am seeing our Principal today for an update, and will show him the comments I have received. I really think that this smells of the "Boys club" system, just a paranoid woman who should just get on with her job, and is trying to disrupt things. (Maybe I am paranoid). However, when one of our most 'experienced' Science teachers had a spill with conc. Bromine (from an ampule) last year, we had Police, Ambulance, Hazmat and everyone here - all asking why I didn't use the fume cupboard!! I was the one who specifically requested him NOT to get ampules, and just get the diluted Bromine water, but no, he knew better as he is a professional. His excuse "I knew too much". Don't ask me how that statement works. I still do not go near him whenever he does experiments!

Wishing everyone using and reading this site a safe, peaceful and happy Christmas. Thanks for the site - it is fantastic.

[coxy]

An update for anyone interested. The extraction fan in the chemical store room has also been disconnected for over 4 weeks, but no-one was notified about that either. However, when it was reported nothing was done until the afternoon of last Monday when I contacted WorkCover. My principal asked me to hold off notifying them for at least 24hours, and I said no, too late for that. So, the exhaust fan has been fixed, and apparently Kelso (repair people) are frantically trying to find old, obsolete, broken down fume cupboards somewhere, so they can obtain the bits they need to repair mine. However, I have now told my HT that I will never use those fume cupboards again, because I do not trust the department, the school, the principal or any paperwork that I might be handed saying everything is safe!
One suggestion from the Principal was that we could contact the Educ. Dept and maybe they have some means of mixing solutions and delivering them to the school as we need them, --- until the cupboards are fixed. I am now just sitting back waiting to see what will happen. The OH&S lady from the local district office has been to visit me, and I have had two emails from the OH&S Liaison officer of the North COast Region as well. All promising work will be complete by next Friday. I am going to the Easter Show next Friday 28th, so I won't care anyway!! Even though it is with a group of 30 students, it should be fun. Leaving at 4am from Port Macquarie and returning about midnight. I love work!

[smiley]

Hey Coxy,

I went through similar things just before Cyclone Larry, in 2006. Our issue was that we couldn't attach flues to our roof, coz they'd blow away. I now just use my old fume cupboards as a place to sit bottles of chemicals, for ongoing experiments.

We ended up getting a portable unit from Westlab, which entirely suits our needs, and doesn't need installation per se, and therefore avoids any need for builders etc.The portable units meet Australian standards, and are easy to use:thumbup: If you do go down that path, get the trolley that they supply.

Good Luck.

Cheers, K

[Labbie]

I still have not had a fume cupboard, since Nov 05 or was it 06. Yes I am getting one, its on its way, which year I have no idea. I have more empty bottles in my prep room, then any thing else. "Sorry I can not make any thing up" I Have no fume cupboard, so the dear ______________ teachers, make it up them shelves. What a mess, and then wait for it, this soultion does not work, what is wrong, can you make some up please. Its a joke.

[rp]

Maybe we could ring some of the talk back radio stations.People like Alan jones (sydney) are only too happy to get stuck into the labour government.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, but we in the NSW Dept of Ed. would face disciplinary action for talking to the media even though it is a great idea and one certain to get action!

[Janice]

Read this with great interest as I can't ever remember our fume cupboard being tested! Do schools have to comply with AS/NZS 2243.8? What do non-government schools do in the country to get theirs tested and about how much does it cost?
I figure I can make a few waves as I'm leaving at end of term!
I have really enjoyed and been educated by this site - pity I only had 6 hours a week in the lab. The Van de Graaf generator gave a wonderful zap after I used all your tips.
Thanks
Janice

[lada]

I am very lucky. When I started 10 years ago, school needed new fumecupboard. I did some research and got some quotes and we ended up getting one from LABTEC in Sydney. It is Laborgini of the fume hoods. Must be close to 2.5m long with seethrough sides, so students can see from 3 directions. The front has 2m long sash(glass door sliding up and down).We have it tested every 2 years by NATA registered company. never failed. The surface is some kind of acid and chem resistant corian like material. I use it daily and am very happy with it
Lada

[coxy]

A lab Assistant further down the coast contacted me saying that the Departmental testers told her that they never test for "exhaust" just that the fans do work, and if a light is fitted, that the light works. How much do they care about us.

As at today 10th April, still nothing has been done, and the Principal asked me today what had I heard??? Nothing - surely they would tell him first. I guess it didn't do much good going to WorkCover after all. Unless the school has been given a time limit in which to get things done. So far - nothing!

Have good holidays people. Come back to work refreshed, and keen!

[Labbie]

Do'nt worry coxy, I'm still waiting also. 22 Nov 2005 my fume cupboard, stopped working. ANd still today I am having two new ones. THey have been passed, and I SHOULD get them some time this YEAR. The DET would like three quotes, they have two. We have got by, We ordered conc acid and had it sent to another school, I go their and make up solutions, then my head teacher brings it up by his car. We make up 4M, then I can duilte down. I just can not wait for my new fume cupboard.

[franco]

Hi Sue

I used to pick up chemicals from our local supplier until one of our Regional Technicians warned me that it could invalidate my car insurance in the event of an accident. My insurer confirmed this so I only transport chemicals when absolutely necessary, and only those of the solid, non-scheduled/placarded variety these days.

Happy holidays to everyone. I have next week without staff or students (a holiday in itself!) before taking a break the following week.

Cheers,
Fran