Australia's Science Forum

Hi All
Yesterday I went to a Dept of Edu inservice and for all dept labbies you never have to do a risk assesment EVER[/b] and for other schools how use the CSIS you never have to do a risk assesment
Dr Phillip Crisp's DVD is a waste of money and time it is for UNI'S use only not schools
so for all you labbies who have the DVD you have a wasted you money.
Noona
P.S. if you think I am still wrong just email Glen Sawle at glen.sawle@det.nsw.edu.au and ask him as is the one who told us yesterday.

I have certainly not done a risk assessment being a dept labbie, but should the teachers be doing them? Was that mentioned?

Noona, are you serious??!!!
What, all the wasted hours doing RA forms with every practical?
Who says we do or dont have to do it.
Help, I am confused.
lada

I am having a bad mood day, and this annoys me! I hate the confusion and I guess alot of you do too. Especially us country labbies who due to location and money aren't able to go to these inservices to learn/ hear these facts, though we all share what we do here it still leaves Questions! (like the posts before me.)
When we do organise days we can get together, as a region, None of these people(lecturers) are able to attend.
Glen Sawle needs to set up a email system to all labbys or hold more inservices in country areas so we are on the same par as the city.
I don't know the answers! Sorry! But this topic is really confusing, and I can tell you this I have just started to make my teachers do a risk assessment and They will kill me if this risk assessment drama is unnessessary!!!!!
Trish.
Ps Sorry, If I seem a little overboard.

I always understood it was the duty of the teachers to do RAs as they are the ones using the equipment and chemicals in the lab.

I thought it was the labbies' responsibility to supply the relevant MSDS with the chemicals, but up to the teachers to do the RAs. ???

I'm confused by the differing understanding we all have...

Robbie

If you follow the CSIS and stay in their guide lines, You do not have to do a RA Ever. Noona is that all school's in Australia or NSW. Would be nice if Glen could put that in writting.

Me sooo confused My head is about to explode Maybe its different for non DET schools, even though we use CSIS??? Or maybe I am just being forced to do more work than I need to, out of pure evilness I just dont know what to think anymore, this is certainly too much to handle for my poor little brain on a friday

Sass

I don't do risk assessments the teachers do But I collect them and store them. I am confused too, After the whole confusion of the RA situation, my teachers have decided to do them, after never in their life doing them, only because we hear that some schools do and some schools don't. So to be safe, incase of audit, we will do until the confusion is clear.
I sometimes think that its good for some teachers as they become to comfortable and don't think about the risks even with the easy pracs. WHO KNOWS! WHAT EVER!
Trish

Do not forget, Glen is on the board for the NEW National Curriculum, coming our way one day.

This seems wierd..
I had an accident a year ago, with a beaker of an unlabelled chemical that a teacher had left around.
The 2nd question I was asked at my interview was "Was a Risk Assessment carried out and where is it?"
So - Workcover EXPECTED a Risk Assessment...

and no - there wasn't one - I didn't even know what the teacher had done as she took chemicals from store room without telling me..

Hi All
This is for all SAO'S and Teaching Staff
Like I said if you follow the CSIS no one needs to do a risk assesment at all so that is all DEPT school and other schools who use the CSIS package...
If you read CSIS it tells you so
Soon for DEPT Schools you will be able to go to a web site for labbies on the DEPT intrenet
Noona

Noona, you are a gem.
i found it in CSIS 1.5.4 RA in schools. it clearly states you have a choice to follow the DETRA protocol, where applicable, or complete a full RA if not following the CSIS. EG if the chemical you are using is of stronger concentration than recommended, then we have to complete "site specific" RA.
I just had a meeting with my HOD, but he is not convinced. Will have to wait for confirmation from Dep of Ed.
Won't that make life easier.
lada

This has become very confusing!
I wish there was just one translation to CSIS!!!!
Why when attending CSIS courses they stress that a Risk Assessment is produced for every prac? and attach a mini MSDS.
What about the OHS Legislation and OH &S regulations?

Employers must provide the assessment and control of risks......
Employers have access to MSDS..............

I dont now about other schools but we have computer down time, we only now have a PC in each lab in a emergency would you have time to log on and hope chemwatch works!!!
MMmmm
I want it all clear as well and wont change till its in writing.

I must say I do agree with you their, although we do not do RA, I too would like something in writting, I have email Glen, but time will tell.

HI All
Sorry I am on my High Horse today.
It is in writing in CSIS the teachers the one that has to do a "RA" if needed and only if the HT approves. As long as they stay in the guidelines of CSIS they are OK.
It is not our job never has been never will be and we so'nt get paid enough to do it.
Most teachers will find an alternitive rather than do a "RA".
By the way if you have not done the training for CSIS then you have to let the Principal know and that goes for all teachers and SAO'S who are new to the school and have not done the training at any other school so if you have not had the training in CSIS please see your principal and get him to arrange a traing day maybe at the next student free day.
This is mandatary for all who work in Dept Schools weather a SOA or Teacher or GA

Noona.

Hi
I have had meeting with The head of OHS dept of ed and curiculium service You do not have to write RA if the teachers are following the Csis Package. It is not up to labbys to do this it is up to the teacher conducting the class to provide RA if they are using something different to the CSIS. this also put into the teacher programs by the head teacher.
As a lab assistant you just have to have the knowledge to understand what a RA is and How to Read it
kathy

Hi Kathy
You are so right is that not what I have said before.
If all have done the training then maybe we would all know it all ( sorry all)
I just think that Dr Phillip Chrisp has a lot to answer for as it seams that after some labbies went to an inservice with him all hell broke loose
Noona

I dont think you can blame Phillip Chrisp, he provides a service, and whether you follow his advice or not is up to each individual school. We subscribe to his RA's and find them very helpful, and they meet our schools requirements. We have a teacher who doesnt like to follow the CSIS, as far as coloured dot, year appropriate chems etc, we needed to do something that made him take notice and be more aware of what he is doing and to stop him helping himself to the chem store, this has worked, although he complains incesantly.
I feel just as confused as everyone else, and it seems the DET needs to have an update of the CSIS, for everyone State & Independant schools.
Though I do have a question, who becomes responsible if an accident occurs (God forbid), hypothetical-If I was the one who prepared the prac equipment/chemicals and the teacher took them and used them, an incident happens, someone is hurt, maybe the teacher ordered the wrong conc, I prepare the stronger one......
I worry that it goes down the line as well as up.

cheers Lisa

Lisa,
When I worked in NSW we followed the the dot system from CSIS.If a teacher orders a concentration not suitable for the year group point this out to him and if he insists on using it it is on is head.The teacher is responsible in the classroom and should check before the class use the equipment.
This applies to any dems he might do eg sodium in water,glycerol on permanganate.You can instruct him but he is responsible if he does it and it goes wrong.
In my experience there are some teachers who can't be told...if you are uncomfortable with something speak up and make note of your objection.My HODs always supported me as I was ahead on experience and in most cases qualifications.
The CSIS handbook is a great resource and i kept it open on my desk and referred to it constantly...i wish we had it in Queensland!

Perhaps you will need to ask Glenn, but I do believe it is the Head Teacher, so long as you can show some one that your order was written down, and you just fellowed the teachers orders. THis is where verbal orders let each of us down. I thought you said 1M no i said 0.1M etc.

I was trained by a wonderful Lady called _____ she knows who she is, but never signed off, what happen's their?????????