Australia's Science Forum

Hi all,

I thought some of you may be able to help me. I have a long list of chemicals that the teachers want ordered (we are basically starting from scratch. We are a k-10 school. I have already veto'd ether (me: Why do you want ether? him: Ah, its a great solvent. me : but do you actually need it? him: no) but need some hope with a couple of others.

So do you your grade 10's and below use either bromine (liquid), lithium (metal) or sulfur (powder)?

Hi we use Bromine but ONLY for yr11-12, it is horrible stuff I would be pleased if it was banned, but we do use sulfur for yr 7-10, but again I have a teacher who hates it and wont use it. You also have to be careful with kids with sulfur allergies. And no we dont have lithium.
Cheers
Lisa

Agree with Lis. Bromine is on my most hated prac list - and its only for yr 12...once a year...

Both Bromine and Lithium are "Teacher Use Only" and quite dangerous. I have never known Lithium to be used in school, and as Lis says, Bromine is only used in one Year 12 prac. (We use "Bromine Water", already made up!) Sulfur is a 7-12 chemical. We use it for testing properties of metal and non metal elements. You can demonstrate how it melts. Years ago, we used to react sulfur with iron filings to make iron sulfide, to show difference in properties between elements and compounds, but I have not seen that one done for years!! (is it still allowed? anybody?)

In year K to 10, all you really need is lots of Bi Carb and lots of Vinegar!

Cheers

Ian

I posted this a while back anyone who interested.

For those who refuse to make up bromine water from scratch. Georgia Deretic who co-wrote Foschem Senior Chemistry gave me a substitute that works just as well and less dangerous.

Bromine in Situ
100 mls 2m Sulfuric Acid
50 gms Potassium Bromide
Dissolve
Add drop by drop of Hydrogen Peroxide (100 vol) till deep brown colour.

Thanks, you have confirmed what I thought. I really did not want to get bromine as we haven't got a ducted fume hood (just one of those ineffective non ducted ones) and I couldn't source the lithium. Sulfur, we have heaps of at my other school but it never seems to get used except as an example in the elements prac. I might have to "borrow" some Luckily both schools are in the catholic system and do not mind sharing the occasional resource.

I just buy bromine water already made up. Making your own from scratch just seemed too difficult and risky for someone with my (lack of) experience. We have had the same bottle for over twelve months, so two prac's worth, and it is still fine. I do store it in the fridge.
I would rather buy a fresh bottle each year, if I had to, than handle a bromine capsule!

Sulfur can be used by years 7-10. Lithium and Bromine can only be used by Teachers only. Bromine water is preferred, and can be used only by years 11&12.
We have never had lithium in the school and never been asked for it in 20 years. Ask HIM where these fit into the syllabus or ask your head teacher to. If you do not have the training to handle these corrosives, or don't feel comfortable doing so, don't. HE needs to have tertiary chemistry quals anyway. Sodium is easier to handle than lithium, and does similar things.

Dime, he is an industrial chemist by trade. I am a biomedical scientist by training. Its not so much I don't want anything to do with them, just don't see the point of having dangerous goods around on a whim if they are not going to be used. We have heaps of sodium metal, so he can just use that. I have asked about the few things on his list so I might have to ask specifically why he wants the bromine.

We have and use Lithium Nitrate, in our flame tests. But that is safe to use for year 7-12, but it came in a very little bottle.

I make up Bromine water.
150ml 0.2M K Bromide
0.15g K Bromate
25 ml 2M HCl

Rosalie (another one)

we use lithium for "REACTIONS OF THE GROUP 1 ELEMENTS WITH WATER", it is less active than sodium, much harder to cut, need sharp good knife

We do the same as Jazz with Lithium, it is useful (but not essential) to have both lithium and sodium so you can demonstrate (teacher only) the increased reactivity of elements in the same group as you go down the periodic table.

That is great that you are both trained. I worked with an ex industrial chemist a year or so ago. They are very knowledgable, but not necessarily practical in terms of teaching what is in the syllabus and risk assessments etc., but overall great to have that knowledge base on hand.

I have just worked my way through my Chemical Stocktake list of 351 chemicals and made up a separate list of those that I have actually used in the last 12 years.

This list has only 195 chemicals on it! Some of them have only been used once or twice in that time. How I'd like to get rid of those that aren't used. I'd have soo much space in the Chemical Store room

I have added the file if it is of any help.
Wendy

That is a good list Wendy. It is obviously just a minor "Typo", but you have Calcium as Orange 7-12 instead of Orange 11-12, or more probably Green 7-12.

Cheers
Ian

I remember my psych hospital days when 90% of the patients were on lithium as a mood stabliser....same lithium
????

Thanks for the chart Wendy - i feel the same about my chemstore, as we are a newish school, we got donated a lot of chems when schools went from being 7-12 round here to 7-10, and then back again (mine is a 7-12)

I too remember dolling out Lithium Carbonate to Manic/Depressive (bi-polar Disorder) patients whilst working as a Registered Nurse in the Psych wards at Concord Hospital in Sydney.

The worst 3 months of my life but I had to do it to gain registration in Scotland.

They were still doing ECT or shock therapy then which was horrific to have to watch.

ECT was still done (Cumberland) when I was there, althought it was done very humanely under a general anaethestic.
And i know it did work for some of my guys....you could certainly tell when they needed their 'top up' Def used as a last resort, we have tried everything else.

Yeah I was shocked to find out the ECT is still used as well .Our local private hospital does it under general as well. I was suprised at the amount of people who had it done really. It was a small ward by Aus standards but every monday their were at least 2 or 3 patients. (I used to have to do their pre-op bloods)