Do you give your opinion?

[dime]

Curious to know whether you labbies give your opinion about a forthcoming prac or not.
To be specific, when a teacher asked for chemicals presented in dropper bottles that have never been asked like that before, I asked what are they doing to try and ascertain if there is an easier way. I thought this was sort of my job. Well this is what I have done for 17 years. Just like to know what you guys do, as my efforts weren't appreciated, to say the least. If it is not my job, well thats fine, I shan't do this again. Thanks for any feed back.

[dolphinscales]

I am fairly lucky that the teachers i currently deal with are happy for me to discuss with them their pracs and to make changes for better flow and ease of use along with better safety practices. it is stuff they have come to rely on me for !!
i personally think it is part of our job and put my awe in regardless. to me it is part of the check on the teachers that they do things safely.

i also only deal with senior students so if it is easier to give them a stock bottle for the students to get out what they need and use it from a beaker or such like then they do it - but i am not sure i woudl do that for more in experienced students or students with a history of making up their own prac as they go along (if you have those students).

[smiley]

Curious to know whether you labbies give your opinion about a forthcoming prac or not.

Oh Dime,

Thanks for that - I needed a laugh!

Do I give my opinion? Oh hell yeah!

Here's the appropriate and I believe correct response to prac requests that are even a little left of centre: What are you trying to achieve in this prac? Is there a reason that you are doing it differently?

I always workshop pracs with my teachers. Half the time I have bought new groovy bizzos that make the prac easier! Sometimes, the teachers don't even know that I have stuff. A good example is that I have those wonderful thermometer clips that mean a student no longer has to hold or suspend a thermometer over liquid that is being heated. Problem is that they fit best in conical flasks. Result is that I have modified a few experiments to suit the use of the new clips. If I'm feeling kind (I am occasionally kind ) I sometimes even buzz up a worksheet with a new diagram in it that incorporates the new equipment.

You have my sympathy if your opinion was not appreciated and I don't know what you'd do about that. My HOD would be having words with said teacher. My HOD treats me like the professional that I am (that being a variable quality too!) and rightfully believes that sometimes I know at least as much, if not more, about how to run pracs. If you don't get sympathy from t your staff, a bit of phenolphthalein in their morning tea milk will teach them not to mess with you.

Chin up.

[RosalieM]

Especially if it is something new, then yeah - I don't see why you shouldn't ask!! I often do, and will have read about something done a different way here and would then suggest that easier option that the teachers may not know about. Just keep going and don't let it bother you. Hang in there!

[Xenon]

If I'm asked for dropper bottles and I don't already have the required reagent in dropper bottles, and I don't feel inclined to allocate, label & fill 8 or so dropper bottles with the chemical required, I just give them one bottle and a dropper pipette (but ensure the bottle is shorter than the pipette so I don't have to fish it out later).

[macca]

Considering some of the hair brained ideas some teachers come up with, I think we have every right to ask questions.
The saying goes never upset the cook.
Around here it's don't upset the labby.

[dime]

Thanks heaps for your replys and it is just as I thought. My HOD is the one I am having issues with. She has reported me to the Deputy and on to the boss. Unfortunately we inherited her from another school where she had major problems. But as I am at the bottom of the food chain, I am in the firing line. I acceded to her request and put the stuff in dropper bottles(bromine water, cyclohexane and cyclohexene).

Her complaint I think is, that I refused to do it - go figure! I think she does not like me questioning her competence. I might add that she ran this prac with year 11, dressed in sandals. I had also asked if she was teaching them the risk assessment stuff to go with it - a much too subtle hint about the sandals. They also did not do it in the fume hood, an issue I did not take up with her, but she has defended her right to do it her way in a lab which she says in well ventilated. Yeah well!! Seems I will be hauled before the boss, who hates me anyway, and he has believed her story unchallenged by me. Funny, here I am thinking we live in a democracy. But he has to believe her because he employed her. His conflict resolution methods don't leave much to be desired. When you're at the bottom of the food chain, some people just want a slave, not a brain to go with it.

Anyway thanks for your support, and have a good weekend.

[smiley]

Dime,

One word - union!

[Jen1]

And who would be dragged over the coals if you didnt point out something that could be dangerous!
I am very lucky here and more often than not, the teachers are asking me which prac they could do for each topic.
Some days I think, why should I bother trying out their new experiments and making improvements when needed as I am only a poorly paid level 1 working on my own here ( ) but then that's the fun part of the job!

[Mother]

Hi Dime
When you go to see the boss make sure you take a colleague with you for support as these type of meetings can be stressful and you may misinterpret some things that are said.The other person just listens in and has no input but is there to make sure you get a fair hearing so no onus is on them. It is your right to do this and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Let us know how things go,alright?
Good luck and stand up for yourself if you know you are right!!!!
Mother

[fibreweb]

Hi Dime,

As soon as I read your original message I knew who the teacher was and basically she is incompetant
Surely the principal knows her history and the complications she caused at her previous school.

Hang in there and stand up to her. She is insecure and resents your competance and knowledge. You have the support of all the Tamworth labbies and numerous science teachers also. I wish we could help in some way.

Wendy

[Voice]

G'day Dime,
I am quite appalled by the way you have been treated. Smiley said it well....Union! And so did Mother. I have 2 suggestions.
1. Document everything that happens between you. Take photos, if you can of her incompetence. But document, document, document!!!
2. Definitely take a colleague in with you for any meetings. But, get that colleague to take a notebook and pencil. Get them to take notes. Why? I have had past experience whereby a Principal remember a meeting totally differently from me! Your colleage does not say anything, just takes notes. It also puts the fear of ..... into those with 'power'. Why, because a note taker gives you some power.

And you may also find that some of the teaching staff are having problems with her. Document their complaints as well.

Good Luck

Maree

[RosalieM]

And if it's not too late, take the MSDS and CSIS with you for those chemicals to back up your reasons for checking. The school may not want to be sued for medical costs which may come back on them!

[ELIZABETH]

Oh Darelle - that's appalling treatment! Please let us know how you get on.
All the best
Liz Brown

[Labbie]

We are all so very concerned about you. Do please get back to us, and let us know. Our thoughts and prays are with you. If there is any thing we can do, just ask.

[Ocean Breeze]

Dime

You could ask her if you could look a the Risk Assessment before you prepare the prac.. tell her that it will help you to understand the thinking behind the prac & help you in your preparation.

However, to answer your original question... we as a 'teaching' team have a lot of ebb and flow of ideas for the pracs within the dept
If anyone can think of a better way to modify the prac, then we all jump in.

I modify pracs all the time, depending if I have a better piece of equipment, want to use less solution, prevent spillage , make the prac less confusing, quicker etc.
I then just loop the teacher in before the lesson, give them the method modification, and away we go.

My teachers are grateful for any input I have.. and vice verca.. if the teachers suggest another /better way to do the pracs it s great for me. But we all talk it through, and work throught the RA together.
Thats what your job should be, ideally.

[dime]

I do so appreciate your comments. I was to be called to principals office on Friday, but it did not happen. At 12.45 today, it has not yet happened. I will be taking a support person with me, when and if finally called. Yes other staff have had issues with her, her inaccurate statements, vague instructions. I find it difficult to verbalise exactly what the problems are with her, but she does not or cannot say that she has a problem, say with me or whoever. She just runs and tittletats to her supervisor, who then goes to the boss. As I see it, they do not follow proper conflict resolution policy directions. Suffice to say, she is protected, and whilst I do not relish meeting with the boss, I want a chance to give my side of the story; a chance denied me before. I am seriously considering putting in a transfer form, not that there's much chance of a position in this town, but it might give the boss a hint, cause he has to sign it! Will keep you informed, if something new happens.

[Jazz]

Hi,
You can conveniently forget this booklet, on her desk
hope I can post this web link but I think it is relevant for us

http://exchange.ieu.asn.au/workcover/sc ... index.html
http://www.ieu.asn.au/193.html

[lizzieb]

Dime,

Sorry to have only just caught up with this thread, and sincerely hope things are improving for your situation this week, but knowing who's involved, I wonder...

After my own similar experiences I can't stress strongly enough that you ring the PSA in Tamworth and talk to them. Two women, both Tanya's, very good, and very experienced with these sort of issues locally. Whether or not you've already had the formal meeting, speak to them!

Best wishes, sweetie - my thoughts are with you.